I Have Music Questions

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umbrellaI like to picture goth as a big beautiful black umbrella. In my head, music is the central pole or shaft of the umbrella, and the ribs are things like fashion, makeup, DIY, various spooky interests . . . I don’t have a full diagram in my head but you get the idea. This might slowly turn into a series of posts on the “goth umbrella” but this post is just about the music.

Most goths, I suspect, would happily agree with music being the central shaft of this umbrella. Which specific bands count, though, is endlessly debated among us. I don’t generally join these debates because I’m not a music geek. Geeks tend to memorize tons of facts about what they love and care a lot about organizing those facts–I totally do this about books because I’m a book geek but with music I just listen and enjoy.

But I do wonder sometimes how bands as different as Bauhaus, Dead Can Dance, Sisters of Mercy, the Cure, Sisters of Mercy and Tones on Tail are considered core goth bands while other similar bands from the same era are considered questionable. Some of these are tied together by sharing band members or playing at the same clubs, or by shared fashion sense, but musically they seem pretty different to me.

Then there’s the question of industrial music. As a ’90s goth I love me some industrial music but a lot of goths insist pretty hard that it’s NOT GOTH, just some awful stuff they played in ’90s goth clubs because people are stupid. Bands with a heavy metal influence get the same treatment–are bands like Nine Inch Nails and Type O Negative acceptable goth bands or non-goth bands a lot of goths happen to like? And if a lot of goths like NIN and a lot of goths like Tones on Tail, does it even make sense to call one band goth and the other not?

Not being a music geek myself, I mostly just listen to what I like. Enough of it fits the goth description that I feel comfortable under the big Goth Umbrella and I’m not concerned about keeping out anyone else who feels comfortable under the big Goth Umbrella. I also don’t worry too much about what YouTube or other “goth celebrities” say. I listen to what they have to say but I also know that strong opinions generate more views so I don’t take them too seriously.

But I’m curious. I would love to hear thoughts on this from non-celebrities. How much do you care about what music counts as goth or not? Do you listen to metal or industrial, and how much do you care about whether it’s goth? What about new bands? Are they goth if they sound like older goth bands? If they’re influenced by classic goth bands? Are they goth if they dress in gothic fashion? If music is the shaft of the big goth umbrella, what exactly is that shaft made of? Bonus points if you’re some sort of expert in music or music history. Don’t be afraid to get specific or technical. 🙂

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from clipart-library.com

 

7 responses to “I Have Music Questions”

  1. as a goth dj i sometimes feel constrained to play pure goth depending on the crowd but even then i tend to mix it up a bit especially towards the end of the night. industrial is great for getting people excited if if it’s not overdone. sanctified by nine inch nails is a personal fave.

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    1. Ooh, I love that song. I was just listening to that album last week. It’s nice to hear a dj’s opinion on industrial and goth. I imagine a dj would get bored hearing the same songs all the time no matter how classic they are.

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      1. sometimes but i’ve only really started delving into the classics in recent years, partly as a reaction to all the same old stuff i kept hearing. i also listen to punk, post-punk, and metal, so i don’t mind mixing it up a bit.

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  2. I love music and it does not just apply to goth, if I hear something that resonates with me I could care less about the genre or what people think about it. Except for “goth music”, industrial, metal and punk is what I “know” best and identify as my type of music. It sounds very constraining to be a person who only listens to genre-specific music. It is easy to pick your a corner on the internet and opinions seem to get polarized like never before. In the real world, I have never experienced the need to pigeon hole what you can or can not listen to if you’re goth. Just like you wrote, there are so many crossovers within the genres that it should be unnecessary to mark similar sounding bands as different from one another, unless your job is to review music from a very specific genre.

    I’m not an expert in any way but believe that it is the constant influx of new ideas and inspiration that keeps the subculture going. We need the variety, both new goth and “goth adjacent” music for it to survive and thrive. There’s no way the subculture can keep existing if the only music considered as true goth are 30-40 year old bands. Artists with music influenced by other goth music and/or with lyrics about death, deep emotions and romance is generally what I would consider at least goth-friendly. To “look goth” is in no way making the music sound the part, even though a lot of goth bands has a dark aesthetic and it’s a visual aid when you’re looking for new stuff.

    The shaft of the goth umbrella should definitely be the music and in my world, goth music should keep evolving, just like any other genre. Influences from industrial or world music or synth pop should all be there (imho) and can usually be traced back to the years when that sound was influencing the mainstream as well. The 10’s has been a big nod back to the 80’s and not just within the goth subculture, it is all over pop culture. The music, fashion, movies and TV-shows have all been deep in the 80’s as well. Goth is not alone in looking back to that specific decade, we are all living in that mainstream society and get affected/and influenced by it. Maybe in ten or twenty years, we’ll look back at the 10’s with dismay for all things trad goth and want that 90’s industrial back in our lives.

    Not sure how to sum up this but…well…Internet is polarizing. Goth is influenced by current mainstream ideals. The subculture has to evolve or it will disappear. Or something like that.

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    1. You make a great point about goth and mainstream culture influencing each other. Most alternative people I know overestimate how different they are from mainstream culture and sometimes pretend it has no influence on them at all. For babybats, I’m sure that focusing on what’s different snd unique about goth helps them understand it and feel like a “real goth” but the older I get the more I see subcultures and mainstream culture influencing each other all the time. Personally, I like it, but I see how it makes some people feel insecure. Some people just don’t know what to do when genres or subcultures mix, and a lot of them just find a corner of the internet where they can hide and pretend that goth is only the things they personally like.

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      1. Yes, I agree completely. When you’re younger it’s often more important to define yourself and it is hard when so many things in life, and in goth, are fluent. Rules and strict lines makes for easy choices but then again, people are complicated and a subculture as big as goth is going to be diverse.

        I love when I hear new music with a sound that’s not stereotypical goth, something you can’t define within just one genre. At the same time, it makes me just as happy to hear a new band heavily influenced by Joy Division. The push and pull between nostalgia and experimentation is what I find truly wonderful with goth music. If people get anxious because some band produces music that isn’t 100% definable, they need to chill.

        The same goes for not liking certain parts of goth music. It has to be okay to prefer certain styles to others but there is no need to be mean to people who has a different taste than you. Diminishing the influence industrial had/have on goth is just a weird thing to do, even though that’s what I tend to see online from time to time. To quote Dirk Gently; Everything is connected.

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      2. I agree. And I love that you quoted Dirk Gently. 🙂

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